Interview Begins.
Campus Pride (CP): First of all, thank you for taking your time out to do this interview.
Michael Luongo (ML): Thank you for calling, I am really happy about doing this.
CP: I just finished reading your book, Gay Travels in the Muslim world, and thought the collection of stories selected were amazing, how did you go about collecting these pieces?
ML: In 2003/2004 I was doing a series of pieces for gay city news [a New York newspaper]. I realized that with all of the writings coming in, there was definitely an interest in the topic. It was also post 9/11 and there was all of this weird stuff in the media, a lot of conspiracy theories and a lot of discussion going on. Then the pictures from Abu Ghraib were released and so the topic of the homoerotic culture in Iraq was being discussed. So clearly I didn’t start this issue, but I wanted to bring about more subtly to this issue. I wanted to bring more nuance to the discussion. I firmly believe that it is important to discuss these issues.
CP: The interesting thing about these stories is that many people can relate to them. Being a country boy myself and living in West Texas, I saw a lot of the same homosexual customs that exist here also existing in Iraq.
ML: That is what makes great travel writing. These are travel stories and even if I hadn’t been to a particular country like, say Bulgaria, I can relate to their stories because there is that human interest. When I talk to young people, I am finding that they are intrigued with the every day life of the Muslim people. They want to relate in some form or fashion so they can understand the culture better. There are also a lot of Muslim women who come to these events. A lot of the voices aren’t heard enough and they [Muslim women] can relate. However, in the end, it is all about the human interest. There is a broader interest that these stories have and anyone can relate to them no matter who they are or where they’re at.
CP: I know that there is one story in the book that sticks out in my mind, a story that you wrote called, Adventures in Afghanistan. The interesting thing is that what you describe could easily be a typical Friday night in Dallas. But when I was reading it I had to keep thinking that this was taking place in Afghanistan, a war torn country.
ML: Yes, they still go out, and each country is a little bit different. But, in the end, men will be men. But they still have the longing for contact. That party is among Afghan men who are soldiers. They throw these parties for each other with the idea that they can have sex with one another, but in the long run it is just about men getting together for tea. People just want to meet each other.
CP: And how do they feel about lesbians?
ML: Because of the separations of the sexes in the culture, you can’t really find out much about lesbians. I have found that many of the women have stories that are very similar to the men. I was told, but not 100% sure on this, but have been told that they do many of the similar things. Of course it wouldn’t be my place to ask a woman if she were lesbian.
CP: A lot of the Muslim countries are war torn and that is the reality. So what is it like to have that constant fear, if you’re a homosexual, in a place known for so much hostility towards those who are different?
ML: Homosexuality is colored by culture. I’ve found that Afghan Americans are more homophobic than true Afghans. Sexuality, to me, appears to be more fluid than here where we define everything as labels. Homosexuality is actually more accepted in Afghan and more enjoyable. It is more common in the Muslim countries. Even before the Victorian era, homosexuality was always more accepted. We find that in a lot of past writings and literature. The concept of gay rights, however, seems to be more of a western culture phenomenon. The problem within these countries is that homosexuality is accepted and the notion to use that in the Western sense and to ask for more acceptances is more of a cultural clash. This is where the clashes occur because it’s just seems like western influence. By assuming that we don’t have homosexuality in those countries, we mix up all of the messages.
For example, we assumed that Iraq men are homophobic when we saw images of Abu Ghraib, but it was Americans soldiers who posed them in suggestive ways. Was it because we fear homosexual men or was it that we degrade homosexuals so much so that it is the ultimate form of humiliation?
What I also find from other men is that as we [western culture] have a hard time distinguishing homosexuality from other behavior. If you and I were to hold hands, people would know that we were gay. Male bonding, however, is much stronger in Muslim countries. Men here are so afraid of touch with one another. An Afghan woman once told me about her father who, when he first moved to the United States, held hands with another Muslim friend of his. The two were in Penn Station and they were verbally abused and attacked almost.
CP: Do you find that, because of the coverage of the war and Islamicphobic tensions in the United States, young people are becoming immune to all of the coverage?
ML: There are several things going on. There is war fatigue among Americans, and that they are sick of hearing about the war. I just did an essay for this Afghan link and what I am finding on college campuses, is that maybe we are sick of hearing about the war itself but, like I’ve said before, young people are still fascinated by the daily lives of people in Iraq and Afghanistan. They are fascinated by all of the day to day lives and the women’s issues. They are sick of the coverage but not the human issues. I think that clearly the war has impacted our economy; it has created a lot of problems for young people graduating now. There will be fewer jobs for people graduating in May. When I graduated in 1991 it was after the first Gulf war. It doesn’t help the Americans that are dying happen to be the young people as well. Maybe that is what people should go into and not be afraid to stand up for their values. We are burying are hands in the sands of the Gulf desert. China is changing the world’s economy right now. The twentieth century is altering dramatically. You young people are graduating into a world when the status of the United States is also changing. This war may very well destroy our empire. If the world is really changing our world and young people are competing into the world any way possible. It is vastly different world and all we can do now really is just come up with solutions so the damage isn’t any more extensive.
CP: You obviously have a lot of passion about this topic, what made you want to write about this particular issue?
ML: I’ve always been interested in the Middle East. I’ve always studied the Middle East even before these events. I live in New York and I got first hand accounts as to what it’s like to be in a worn torn city. You could go in with them in ground zero and help them dig up bodies. After 9/11 I would stand in the mix of the ruble. To stand on ground zero and to dig up dead bodies is a life changing experience. This is what it must be like to live in Beret but we were in New York. As a travel writer I want to do more to create more of an understanding. I made it a goal to live in different places. I wanted to get a greater sense of what was going on. On November 11, 2001, I wrote my first travel piece in Afghanistan. Some of my work was some of the first travel pieces from Iraq. At a time when our government is encouraging us to actively seek war in these countries I wanted to understand the human impact of those decisions.
CP: Do you have any advice for young people who are interested in going into writing of any sort?
ML: Writing isn’t as glamorous as it seems.
CP: So nothing like Sex and the City?
ML: [laughter] No, there is no way I could afford a closet full of Manolo Blahniks, no you have to stay persistent. You also have to have a belief in yourself. Writing is like growing as a tree. The tree is always going to get taller but there are still all these branches. You may be doing a lot of work that is giving you a lot of experience across the tree instead of going up. There are also a lot of distractions. You’ve got to find a way to make time for yourself, work on your craft, and cut out the garbage that is preventing you from work. It is also important for you to go up to editors and submit the work you do. You will get a lot of rejection, but you will also get some acceptance. JK Rowling received 61 rejections. What if she would have given up? She would have never sold Harry Potter but she remained persistent. Sometimes we’d [writers] would like to have you think that it was all glamorous, but it really isn’t. I would also recommend that you take rejection and learn from it. You can’t allow rejections to make you bitter. All you can really do is just keep working on your craft.
Inteview Ends.
You can learn more about Michael Luongo, including ways to bring Luongo on your campus at www.michaelluongo.com.
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